indecisionwins: (Default)
[personal profile] indecisionwins
Hmm, reading the Phoenix, including the article about $1000 being stolen from a freshman in ML, and Arthur's column, being reminded again about what happened at that Sharples party... I guess this is what happens when they try to make Swarthmore more "normal", isn't it? Well, when you decide you don't want to fill your school with wimpy intellectuals, and instead try to increase the number of people who will make lots of money and donate back to Swarthmore... (which is something that I know Jerome Kohlberg has strongly encouraged the school to do), and still expect to keep Quaker values... I guess it doesn't work so well, does it?

(OK, this might be more angry and less well-reasoned than it might be because I didn't get enough sleep last night, after sitting on a closed Schulkyll Expressway from 2 AM and 3:30 AM last night, and I should be studying for a test tomorrow. And I'm a little bit numb from the Cardinals losing, although by the end, it looked like the Astros really were the better team, so the Cardinals needed to just be put out of their misery... Well, it hurt a lot less than if they had lost on Monday, which they were within one out of doing... And I'm also noticing the irony of blaming Jerome Kohlberg, when the victim of the Sharples thing is an Evans scholar. And considering that he gave me about $150,000, I guess it's really not fair for me to blame him for things. But still, wow... There really has been more aggressive violence by Swarthmore students lately than there ever was before, hasn't there?)

Date: 2005-10-20 05:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I balk at saying this. Our class was admitted when Swarthmore was trying to be nerdy and intellectual and looking for iconoclasts who hated their high schools. And our class, too, is filled with assholes.

And I really don't think massive irresponsibility correlates that well with future earnings potential.

Date: 2005-10-20 06:09 am (UTC)
ext_248645: (Default)
From: [identity profile]
Well, I dunno... My class was the first one that Jim Bock admitted, and I remembering thinking, when I was a freshman at least, that it seemed like '05 was less "nice" than the older classes. I'm not sure that that's fair, and if anything, it could have been the obvious fact that '05 people were freshmen then, and I just thought people who had been at Swarthmore longer were more interesting. But considering that being around primarily '05 people during senior week brought back some feelings from freshman year, maybe that wasn't entirely wrong... And if there is any truth to that, then I guess I'm basically blaming Jim Bock for changing Swarthmore, even though whenever I mentioned that to the Evans scholarship advisors, they insisted that that wasn't true...

Actually, I think the Swarthmore I'm idealizing is the one that I read about in Everett Hunt's book (Revolt of the College Intellectual), which is about Swarthmore during Frank Aydelotte's time, although it probably was there much more recently than that.

As far as irresponsibility correlating with future earnings potential... You're right, I'm not sure that I would say that directly. But I think having an aggressive, competitive personality does correlate with future earnings potential, and having an aggressive, competitive personality also correlates with certain kinds of irresponsible things. Or at least, someone who is more aggressive and competitive is more likely to do aggressive, randomly violent things than, say, a typical Swillie. Obviously, I don't mean that everyone who's not passive and socially awkward is going to randomly get drunk and throw tables off of Sharples balconies, because most people won't do that, even if they are more aggressive and competitive. But I think the likelihood increases enough that it could account for there being more of this kind of stuff happening. That's especially true when you have an environment like Swarthmore where it's assumed that people won't do that, so there's nothing wrong with leaving doors unlocked, having school-sponsored parties with alcohol, etc. That's a nice environment to have, but it makes it much easier for people to do these kinds of things. So I guess my point was that I'd rather Swarthmore be like it was during Frank Aydelotte's time, and then we could leave our doors unlocked, have parties with alcohol, and anything else, and not have to worry about anything. So OK, maybe that is elitist, like Susan says, and it probably is incriminating, or at least it makes me feel like I haven't changed as much as I had thought from middle school. But, yeah...

Date: 2005-10-20 10:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
it seemed like '05 was less "nice" than the older classes.

Your class was also the first class without football players. But you weren't around when the football players were actually here. So I don't think you can make that judgement.

Date: 2005-10-20 12:59 pm (UTC)
uncleamos: (Default)
From: [personal profile] uncleamos
I've thought about this and talked to people about this a lot, and I am of the firm opinion that as a collective group, the class of 2005 was the best bunch of the seven we knew. I realize that it was also the only one we knew all four years, so there's some bias, but that's my opinion. Followed by the class of 2008, of course. Then the others.

Date: 2005-10-21 01:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Hello...'07? Much better than those silly 08ers!

Date: 2005-10-20 05:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
"Sharples party?" I briefly glanced through the latest Phoenix and don't see anything about it. What happened?

Date: 2005-10-20 05:44 am (UTC)
ext_248645: (Default)
From: [identity profile]
They had a party in Sharples, and apparently, a drunk Swattie randomly decided to throw a table over a balcony upstairs in Sharples. It ended up hitting someone in the head, and it sounds like she could have been fairly seriously injured... The original Phoenix article about it was here. Arthur's column in tomorrow's Phoenix that talked about it is here.

Date: 2005-10-20 06:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Huh. It says Arthur is a junior. Oops!

Date: 2005-10-20 06:43 am (UTC)
ext_248645: (Default)
From: [identity profile]
Eh, I don't know. It depends how you're defining "elite"... I mean, if you're going by the idea that only people who don't have to worry about money can be the type of "wimpy intellectuals" I'm idealizing, I guess you can say that, but I don't think that's really fair. I guess I just want people to be innocent and passionate about what they're doing, rather than cynical and selfish and only doing things to get money and power for themselves. I mean, I know I don't always fit that ideal that I have, but I still think it's a nice ideal... Have you really become pessimistic enough to think you have to be cynical and selfish to survive?

OK, I guess that actually got away from what I was actually talking about... Actually, I am feeling kind of incoherent right maybe I should stop writing... But I don't mean to disparage everyone who plans to make money after Swarthmore. I'm just saying... Well, hmm, when I try to figure out a consistent way to explain why what I'm saying that isn't elitist, I'm not coming up with anything. So maybe I really can't say I'm not being an elitist. But right now, I really should stop procrastinating and either sleep or study, but maybe I'll try to figure out exactly what I'm saying later...

Date: 2005-10-21 01:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Yes, Michael. Yes I have. Cynical and selfish all the way.


Date: 2005-10-20 10:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
How can you bash the class of 2005
Rose_Garden hails from that class!

Date: 2005-10-20 12:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
You know, this isn't the first time that these kinds of thefts have happened, either. See: this past summer, among other things. Moreover, the MO of most of the egregious thefts that I've heard of (one of my classmates and a few people she knows got several valuables stolen from them in a string of thefts last summer) seem to involve non-students entering dorms specifically to steal things. So, I don't feel all that comfortable assigning blame in this case without all of the facts.

Plus, I'm sure that this school has never had any thefts, assaults or *cough* murders prior to our arriving here. Everyone got along, there were no assholes, violent people, or thieves.

Don't get me wrong, I feel like there's been a shift from the time those articles were written to now, but I think it's unclear whether that shift is due to overt changes in college policy and enforcement- which seems possible- or due to changes in student attitudes, that students have become less outraged at this sort of thing when it does happen. Either way, I think you do kinda overstate things.

Incidentally -and this is kinda important- the student needs to file a police report. Just reporting it to public safety isn't really good enough if you want to see that money again- they don't really do a whole lot. I don't know the gal- otherwise I'd tell her. Can someone else pass that tip along?

Date: 2005-10-20 12:59 pm (UTC)
uncleamos: (Default)
From: [personal profile] uncleamos

Rich college students are self-centered assholes. Period. I've been complaining about Swatties being self-centered assholes for years.

Or at least a certain number of them are. And Mike, you're waaay too young to pull the "things are worse now than they were back then" shtick.

Date: 2005-10-20 01:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Hear, hear.


indecisionwins: (Default)

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